PDA

View Full Version : Passive Income without Tax?



VodaFX
02-24-2014, 10:47 AM
VodaFX offers an automated software trading system that generates a passive income by trading on the Foreign Exchange. It is now sold at a retail level into Europe, our first office opened is in Dublin Ireland. We have recently been told that the passive income generated by VodaFX is considered Tax Free as it Automated Foreign Exchange Trading falls under "Spread Betting" in Ireland.

The way it works is a client starts a trading account of 10,000 Euro with a broker, VodaFX algorithms are then traded through the broker automatically to generate the consistent profits we are known for.

What are your thoughts on this as we found it rather interesting. We must make it clear we are not financial advisors and we are merely restating what has been told to us by a local accountant from one of our clients.

We are interested to know your thoughts.

-VodaFX Team

mameeker@cuse
02-24-2014, 11:26 PM
So how exactly can you make an income without claiming taxes in the United States?

AlecD
02-26-2014, 05:21 PM
Would you mind elaborating a little bit about how/if this would work for U.S. citizens?

VodaFX
02-27-2014, 03:12 AM
Hi There, I am not sure I understand your question. We are not "claiming tax" in the US. Maybe you mean, without "paying tax" and if so, the answer is... We are not ourselves tax advisors or accountants and don't know anything about tax in the US. We have posted here to get a discussion going about tax implications of online or automated trading as this is what we do.

Many of the people that purchase VodaFX use a broker in Australia, the profits are made there and can be then transferred back to a nominated bank account.

Future plans for the software include distribution into USA and Canada and also using brokers within those countries, however the customer may choose to use the Australian broker anyway for their own comfort or benefit.

crimsonghost747
02-27-2014, 06:09 AM
First of all, this will only work in certain very limited countries such as Ireland who sees this as Spread Betting instead of stock market transactions. Any country whose legistlation sees this as forex trading, which is what is it, will tax the individuals accordingly.

The thing that really bothers me is how you basically claim to make passive income with an algorythm in the stock market. If this is true then tell me one thing, why are you here on this forum instead of partying at the Bahamas with super models? You are claiming to have a program creating INFINITE income... so what's the point of sharing it?

LindaKay
02-27-2014, 10:05 AM
I would be nervous about anything that tries to bypass tax laws. It seems like a good way to get into trouble. Plus, it sounds like a scam anyway.

AlecD
02-27-2014, 01:03 PM
This really does seem kinda fishy. ;s

crimsonghost747
02-27-2014, 01:25 PM
I would be nervous about anything that tries to bypass tax laws. It seems like a good way to get into trouble. Plus, it sounds like a scam anyway.

It's not exactly bypassing laws. There are countries where things such as sports betting is not taxed since it's gambling and your chances of losing are higher than your chances of winning. This is basically the same.

As for the scam part, yes definitely agreed.

mameeker@cuse
02-27-2014, 06:44 PM
You must report any income you earn in the U.S. Plain and simple.

crimsonghost747
02-28-2014, 02:50 AM
You must report any income you earn in the U.S. Plain and simple.

Nope, definitely not plain and simple.
For example, if you earn money online and the total amount for the year is less than $600 (I believe) you don't have to report it.
I'm sure there are other examples... how about:
If you go to help your neighbour fix his car and he pays for your help with a case of beer, do you need to report the costs of the case of beer?

VodaFX
02-28-2014, 04:57 AM
Hi all,

Firstly, thank you for the interest guys... its great to have discussion, in any form.

There seems to be some confusion here though (and for some reason some rather liable name calling). This is not a scam. Of course if it was, you'd say, thats what we'd claim. I'd be happy to show demonstrations of what we do to anyone that is interested in actual fact however, and/or back it up with real numbers and client referrals. This however, I thought was not a forum for that or you'd be claiming I was trying to sell it here. Which I am not. Also, if we were trying to scam people, I doubt we'd start a discussion here with no attempt to sell the software, merely to sponsor discussion on the wider implications of tax on online income.

I am particularly concerned by the following post;

"First of all, this will only work in certain very limited countries such as Ireland who sees this as Spread Betting instead of stock market transactions. Any country whose legistlation sees this as forex trading, which is what is it, will tax the individuals accordingly.

The thing that really bothers me is how you basically claim to make passive income with an algorythm in the stock market. If this is true then tell me one thing, why are you here on this forum instead of partying at the Bahamas with super models? You are claiming to have a program creating INFINITE income... so what's the point of sharing it?"


If you read my introduction you will note we trade FOREIGN EXCHANGE, not the share market. Further, I have never claimed this has no risk or that it makes an "infinite" income and finally, you are right, if I could be on a beach with super models right now, I would be :)

I work here. Part of that job is to help clients understand what is a relatively new way of generating income, online and passive or active. We are sometimes confused with, or accused of being less than legitimate, much the same way as many new industries (i.e. Edison's attempts at commercialising electricity at the turn of the century, carbon credit trading, the tech boom of the 90's or in fact Apples meeting with IBM in the early 80's). It is frustrating and sometimes competitors, in more traditional industries, even go so far as to try misinformation or smear campaigns.

The reason I entered these forums is to have real conversations with people that are perhaps more analytical than emotional and would perhaps be interested in the "common man", like me, not getting taxed to high heaven at every turn while massive corporate bonuses, private jets and Michelin starred dinners are often tax deductible. I remain hopeful I am in the right place for this.

In answer to the feeling here that I am making up this whole automated/online trading thing, I have copied below some reports and articles from Forbes, Bloomberg and Investopedia. In these links you will see that this market is now over 60% of all Wall St trading and been around for over 10 years. We offer one of several solutions available to make this market accessible to the average investor and, like several mentioned here, have made it fully passive. Its not completely bullet proof yet and the market is continually evolving but it does offer good relative returns versus risk and I feel a great addition to a portfolio. Now thats as "sales" like as I'll get and please note, these comments are aimed at the 60% of automated trading on Wall Street, not just our product.


http://www.investopedia.com/articles/trading/11/automated-trading-systems.asp

Bloomberg Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY-zTV_zkYc

Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremybogaisky/2013/09/04/quants-r-us-algorithmic-trading-trickles-down-to-individual-investors


Anyway, I would like to focus again on the TAX implications and I appreciate the comment that some countries see this as spread betting and thus tax free. Also that many don't. I guess it comes down to individual advice and jurisdiction. We will continue to insist clients avail themselves of this. I would be interested to know though if anyone knows of a list of jurisdictions that do see trading like this as "spread betting".

crimsonghost747
02-28-2014, 07:37 AM
I am particularly concerned by the following post;

"First of all, this will only work in certain very limited countries such as Ireland who sees this as Spread Betting instead of stock market transactions. Any country whose legistlation sees this as forex trading, which is what is it, will tax the individuals accordingly.

The thing that really bothers me is how you basically claim to make passive income with an algorythm in the stock market. If this is true then tell me one thing, why are you here on this forum instead of partying at the Bahamas with super models? You are claiming to have a program creating INFINITE income... so what's the point of sharing it?"


If you read my introduction you will note we trade FOREIGN EXCHANGE, not the share market. Further, I have never claimed this has no risk or that it makes an "infinite" income and finally, you are right, if I could be on a beach with super models right now, I would be :)

Yeah sorry about mixing up foreign exchange and stock market. I wrote the post, then checked your website to see which it was and came back to change it... but apparently I only changed the first paragraph and not the second one. My bad.

But. You never said anything about zero risk... then again you don't even mention risk in your post. In fact, I can't even find any mentions about the possible risks on your website. However you do use words such as "generates a passive income" and "generate the consistent profits" where especially the last one is pretty much guiding us into the direction of being sure to make a profit. While you don't say it directly, the idea is certainly there.

And that leads me to the infinite income part. As long as you can make more than 3% of profit on a yearly basis, consistent and 100% fool proof, there is nothing stopping you from selling everything you own and then going to the bank and getting an investment loan, and after that using all that capital on a leveraged product and using these profits to not only pay off the interest, but to also spend time on a beach with super models. :)

VodaFX
02-28-2014, 11:43 AM
ohh.... I forgot to mention.. I love the handle.. "crimsonghost"... My name is Trevor. Not nearly as exciting.

But thats a side issue.

No, really, my bad though.. I thought we were here talking about tax. For that reason, I didn't post a disclaimer or go into a sales pitch on risk v return.

When anyone looks at what we do, we give a very FULL picture and of course before they buy, they are presented with hard copy paperwork and disclaimers that cover risk, like any financial or in our case, software product (i.e term deposit, share trading, mortgage or a copy of Microsoft Word).

This is NOT ZERO risk. We have never said it is. BUT, I do believe, and so do many of our customers, that it really ticks most boxes and given the links above, the market shift to automation and the limited investment involved compared to risk.. its WELL worth considering.

Again though... I really just wanted to chat about tax :)

crimsonghost747
02-28-2014, 12:48 PM
You might want to add some of the risk assessment parts onto your website. Because now it really does sound quite a lot like another scam... you know those binary option websites? Because if it's too good to be true, it is. And like I said, now it does really seem like that.


But about the tax, do you know what is the reason that some countries classify this as spread betting? Is it just because it's a completely automated system?

sgreenwood
03-02-2014, 11:33 AM
Nope, definitely not plain and simple.
For example, if you earn money online and the total amount for the year is less than $600 (I believe) you don't have to report it.
I'm sure there are other examples... how about:
If you go to help your neighbour fix his car and he pays for your help with a case of beer, do you need to report the costs of the case of beer?
Actually that's not true. You are supposed to report any income you make. There are rules for how much you have to make before it generates a 1099 from the company you earned it from, but that doesn't mean that you get a "free" $600 before you have to report. Also techinically you are supposed to report the value of that case of beer too.

Lostvalleyguy
03-02-2014, 12:07 PM
The tax issue is simple. Talk to a tax professional in your region - it is the only way to know for certain.

Here in Canada lottery winnings are tax free in the U.S., they are not. If I win a U.S. lottery (or gambling winnings on a weekend in Vegas) I am taxed, and when I get back home, I can file to reclaim some of that tax back. A U.S. citizen winning in Canada is not initially taxed, but must claim it later. The point is that a professional should be able to give you the correct information for you.

Money generated will fall into some category with your government. If it is tax free - consider yourself lucky but don't assume it is and hope for the best.

VodaFX
03-03-2014, 08:19 AM
Thanks for the last couple of posts guys... Very helpful. This is the reason we have been advising people in various locations to seek independent professional tax advice. Simply put, it's not our area.

I started this thread to throw it around a little and wondered if online income was treated any differently by major jurisdictions. Also worth noting, this is one of the many reasons we do not put a lot of legal/disclaimer info on our site as the web is global and what applies in the US can be different from Spain.

This also applies to "risk assessment" as this can often get tied up in legal as well. For Example, what we can disclose/show of actual results/accounts in one country can be very different in another. We don't run hypothetical or demo accounts, the accounts we show are live and belong to real people that have given us permission to do so. When we sell the product into a country, the legal, risk assessment and due diligence opportunities etc.. are tailored for that jurisdiction. What we always do however, is provide ample paperwork and opportunity for customers to make the right decision, with professional advice if necessary, for them.

Tell me though, if you can, we have been told that some jurisdictions consider an increase in the balance of an automated trading account as "capital gain" (which are sometimes themselves exempt) being that no human interacts with an account and it effectively increases in value "organically". Does this ring any bells with anyone and if so, do you know where this would apply?

Thanks again guys.. very interesting and helpful..

VodaFX
03-03-2014, 08:24 AM
I forgot to mention..

I would also be interested in a list of countries where this sort of income could be considered "spread betting" as discussed earlier in the thread if anyone has one??

Many thanks again...

soopersonic
03-03-2014, 09:57 PM
I've never heard the term "spread betting" before, but it brings to mind a shotgun approach to investing, i.e. putting something in every category, with the idea that one of them will pay off. Back to the original tax question though, this would be considered as investment income in Canada, and subject to the normal taxation rules with foreign investment. We are limited to no more than 20% foreign content, and if you have more than 100,000K in foreign property it must be declared on the yearly income tax forms.

andrew2510
03-23-2018, 07:28 PM
I highly suggest you consult a tax specialist. We all here can make suggestions for you but with not knowing the exact problem and/or figures, we are of no help. The tax people know the ins and outs of what has to be counted and what doesn't have to be.

Zhi Ruo
03-17-2020, 07:53 AM
This really looks like a Fishy...

Lilykevin86
07-18-2020, 01:49 AM
Easy revenue is income gotten from an investment property, constrained organization, or other In any case, the IRS doesn't generally concur that portfolio pay is aloof, so it's shrewd to check with an expense proficient regarding that matter.

raviseo120
10-31-2020, 12:39 PM
Thanks for sharing with us

moverdubai12
11-06-2020, 11:54 PM
Passive income will be income procured from rents, sovereignties, and stakes in restricted associations. Portfolio income will be income from profits, interest, and capital additions from stock deals. ... Passive income, from rental land, isn't dependent upon high compelling expense rates.

moverdubai12
11-09-2020, 10:50 PM
What Is Passive Income? Automated revenue is profit gotten from an investment property, restricted association, or other endeavor in which an individual isn't effectively included. Likewise with dynamic pay, easy revenue is generally available. Nonetheless, it is frequently treated diversely by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS).

alishbasaki
01-15-2021, 11:04 PM
Automated revenue is pay procured from rents, sovereignties, and stakes in restricted organizations. Portfolio pay is pay from profits, interest, and capital additions from stock deals. Automated revenue, from rental land, isn't dependent upon high viable expense rates.

KENZAdvertising2
01-16-2021, 12:16 AM
Here comes the job of web engineers who construct alluring and useful sites for organizations to help them associate with clients in a proficient manner. | Web Designing In Lahore | site engineer in Lahore, Our Company's web engineers affirm that sites of organizations work dependably and easily.

lishmaliny
01-20-2021, 08:46 AM
Passive income comprises of earnings which are derived via a rental property, limited partnership, or any other enterprise in which any individual is not involved in active participation. Usually, passive income is taxable. Passive income requires little to no effort in order to earn and maintain.

raviseo121
01-21-2021, 11:31 AM
thanks for sharing with us

kukre
02-16-2021, 05:54 AM
I honestly didn’t believe that passive income in general is possible until I tried for myself the possibility of earning money on cryptocurrencies, and this changed my worldview. But what can I say, even after several years it is interesting for me to study and delve into this area, I read the research here (https://cryptoresearch.report/crypto-research/how-crypto-brokers-and-funds-source-liquidity/), you can find a lot of interesting and cool information about brokers, cryptocurrency exchanges, etc.

RaniaRanii3
05-08-2021, 03:30 PM
Automated revenue is pay acquired from rents, sovereignties, and stakes in restricted associations. Portfolio pay is pay from profits, interest, and capital increases from stock deals. Automated revenue, from rental land, isn't dependent upon high successful assessment rates.

RaniaRanii3
05-22-2021, 12:08 AM
Easy revenue is pay acquired from rents, sovereignties, and stakes in restricted organizations. Portfolio pay is pay from profits, interest, and capital increases from stock deals. Automated revenue, from rental land, isn't dependent upon high compelling duty rates.